View Full Version : When shopping for a HT receiver....
_AnGeL_
09-01-2009, 11:15 AM
should i look for one with hdmi in and out, or will i be fine without?? i really dont have anything connected through hdmi except for the satellite..... help me out i are n00b with this shit...
i can get a yamaha b-stock receiver with hdmi input for a little bit more than i can get a used yamaha receiver w/o hdmi....
is there really that much of a difference between hdmi and component cables? i mean i cant even really see a difference when i switch modes on my tv. ie: i had the 360 on 720p and i changed it to 1080i and i didnt notice shit :crap: lol
oh and for now im going to use some crap-tasic HT speakers that i have from a previous HT.... my old receiver died.
CockMuncher
09-01-2009, 11:56 AM
there is a major difference form Component and HDMI. The colors are brighter, images are crisper since the analog conversion is no longer there. and less jitterness on fast moving objects. You are comparing digital vs analog. digital pwns imo.
Here is the best receiver for the buck(judging by the specs), when it releases it should be hard to beat.
http://emotiva.com/umc1.shtm
pair it with this massive 70lb 7 channel amp you got some good shit for 1500.
http://emotiva.com/upa7.shtm
there is a major difference form Component and HDMI. The colors are brighter, images are crisper since the analog conversion is no longer there. and less jitterness on fast moving objects. You are comparing digital vs analog. digital pwns imo.
All subjectively based oppinions ITP.
If the only thing you have that is capable of outputting via HDMI is your sattelite reciever, save your monies. You can run HDMI from your sat reciever to your TV, and optical audio from your sat reciever to your HT reciever for audio, then run everything else through a component cable to a different input on your TV.
Besides, the ONLY thing that even makes use of HDMI right now is Blu-ray, dish or whoever claims that they have 1080p broadcast, and they may very well broadcast in 1080p, but not a whole lot that they broadcast is recorded to that level.
Any difference that someone notices between the same signal running over component vs that same signal running over HDMI has planted the improvement in their head and has convinced themselves it is better. I will challenge anyone who wants to on this.
And cockmuncher... How is that processor the best bang for the buck? :loco:
At $700 I can find a Yamaha that can do everything that I need it to do, and then some, and it already has an amp built into it... Best bang for the buck does not equal the best money can buy...
_AnGeL_
09-01-2009, 12:11 PM
werd. plus i broke as hell lol...
i seen some yamaha receivers on ebay that were pretty cheap...
anyway i think i can get the one with out HDMI and just run the optical audio out from the tv to the receiver. that way i can just hook everything up to the tv for ease of wiring and crap... right??? lol
You could, but then why bother with a reciever?
I wouldnt bother running any audio to the TV, just use the optical out on the sat box into the reciever, and all your other devices into the reciever to make use of the input signal switching on the reciever.
You would still have to switch between HDMI and component inputs on your TV when switching to/from watching your sattelite, but thats no biggie. Especially if you has a universal remote with macro's.
_AnGeL_
09-01-2009, 12:30 PM
ok i get it noaw.
i think ima going to get one of these... after that i would have to upgrade my speakers.
i was looking at some on newegg, they're the polk audio monitor series. anyone have any experience with these??? look like nice and the 5 speakers would come out to around 400.
i wouldnt be upgrading the speakers soon tho lol... so idk if by the time i do i can get something better.
gymfreak101
09-01-2009, 12:39 PM
I would check out the Pioneer vsx 819 h-k, I have this in my bedroom as my budget reciever and it has more features than I can list, best bang for buck reciever you can find. Most recievers with hdmi under 300 dollars just offer pass through video, this one has the true dolby hd , dts master, auto mic calibration and on screen display for your ipod, iphone with no need to buy a dock also bluetooth audio capabilities. 269.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117302&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Receivers-_-Pioneer-_-82117302
Also check out: http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_i_0?rh=i%3Aelectronics%2Ck%3Adenon+receiver&keywords=denon+receiver&ie=UTF8&qid=1251826851
pl8er
09-01-2009, 12:42 PM
Yes, get HDMI. Most things are adapting to it. You may have only one thing now but will have more in the future.
gymfreak101
09-01-2009, 12:46 PM
I know most people would flame but I would stay away from onkyo recievers I had 2 606's with the same heat problems. I loved the sound of the harmon 254 but it still more expensive and does not offer the features as some of the new ones.
pl8er
09-01-2009, 12:47 PM
No flame at all. Low end onkyo sucks balls imo.
I'm using a Pioneer (hrm either elite or one below it) and love it.
Yes, get HDMI. Most things are adapting to it. You may have only one thing now but will have more in the future.
I disagree here. TV technology has progressed WAY beyond broadcasting technology thus far, and continues to improve faster than the media broadcasting technology can.
Yes, everything is moving to HDMI, and in the future, this will be the cable that is used pretty universally. But by that time, there will probably be something newer and better, possibly even wireless. Until HDMI becomes the standard as opposed to the upper crust, I say save your cash because by the time it becomes the standard the prices will have dropped and like said, there could be something better.
TV manufacturers have already started working on wireless HD connections. My guess is that they will have started producing some form of this before broadcasting (cable, sattelite, Blu-ray(after DVD is phased out))all catch up to be able to take advantage of the display technology.
**Cliffs** Technology moves so fast that the average consumer is better off saving money by staying behind technology trends and upgrading later, if needed.
gymfreak101
09-01-2009, 12:56 PM
No flame at all. Low end onkyo sucks balls imo.
I'm using a Pioneer (hrm either elite or one below it) and love it.
it really does suck, I am using the Pioneer vsx 1019h-k in my living room and love it.
gymfreak101
09-01-2009, 12:59 PM
I disagree here. TV technology has progressed WAY beyond broadcasting technology thus far, and continues to improve faster than the media broadcasting technology can.
Yes, everything is moving to HDMI, and in the future, this will be the cable that is used pretty universally. But by that time, there will probably be something newer and better, possibly even wireless. Until HDMI becomes the standard as opposed to the upper crust, I say save your cash because by the time it becomes the standard the prices will have dropped and like said, there could be something better.
TV manufacturers have already started working on wireless HD connections. My guess is that they will have started producing some form of this before broadcasting (cable, sattelite, Blu-ray(after DVD is phased out))all catch up to be able to take advantage of the display technology.
**Cliffs** Technology moves so fast that the average consumer is better off saving money by staying behind technology trends and upgrading later, if needed.
samsung is working on wireless hd signal that works similar to bluetooth now, also I don't think blu ray will survive, look every tv is now offering internet capabilites with streaming movies in hd. I think streaming media will take over before to long.
_AnGeL_
09-01-2009, 01:00 PM
thanks for the dif. options but they're out of my budget.
i have to stick with low-end/used products and even then there still isnt much to choose from.
we're talking about a max budget of 150 for the receiver. only ones i have found in that price range that arent pre-historic are the yamaha's and some used low-end denons... and the denon models do not have HDMI... i will keep looking tho.
samsung is working on wireless hd signal that works similar to bluetooth now, also I don't think blu ray will survive, look every tv is now offering internet capabilites with streaming movies in hd. I think streaming media will take over before to long.
Streaming media would be good too, and would still bypass the need for an HDMI connection.
Only reason I can't see relying soly on streaming media would be data transfer rates and buffering rates from a virtual media. It could work, but I think that it needs a bit more stability to it.
thanks for the dif. options but they're out of my budget.
i have to stick with low-end/used products and even then there still isnt much to choose from.
we're talking about a max budget of 150 for the receiver. only ones i have found in that price range that arent pre-historic are the yamaha's and some used low-end denons... and the denon models do not have HDMI... i will keep looking tho.
Checked CL and ebay?
_AnGeL_
09-01-2009, 01:03 PM
im checking on ebay.... CL in my area usually doesnt have anything worth buying FTL
_AnGeL_
09-01-2009, 01:05 PM
i found a yamaha HTR-6130
for around 145 shipped... it has HDMI
gymfreak101
09-01-2009, 01:05 PM
Streaming media would be good too, and would still bypass the need for an HDMI connection.
Only reason I can't see relying soly on streaming media would be data transfer rates and buffering rates from a virtual media. It could work, but I think that it needs a bit more stability to it.
very true , ever checked out the vudu player thing they use some technology were even on a 3mbps the is no buffer. I think something like that will replace blu ray but not for a couple of years. Also movie studios will block streaming media because it makes it to easy to pirate
gymfreak101
09-01-2009, 01:06 PM
i found a yamaha HTR-6130
for around 145 shipped... it has HDMI
pass through only no audio would still need toslink cable.
_AnGeL_
09-01-2009, 01:10 PM
pass through only no audio would still need toslink cable.
what? lol
**edit** i got you now. lol
ngsm13
09-01-2009, 01:13 PM
Been loving my Onkyo 605/606 for the past few years. Running all 7 channels @4ohms... and no problems.
It upscales and upconverts all my inputs, and I only have to hookup ONE WIRE to my tv. Love it.
nG
what? lol
An optical audio cable lol. I bet your sattelite provider would probably give you free HDMI and optical cables if you asked.
If not, the optical cable is cheap, the HDMI can be cheap, depending on where you buy it from.
_AnGeL_
09-01-2009, 01:15 PM
An optical audio cable lol. I bet your sattelite provider would probably give you free HDMI and optical cables if you asked.
If not, the optical cable is cheap, the HDMI can be cheap, depending on where you buy it from.
werd. i had to google toslink...
i am such a home audio n00b :crap:
_AnGeL_
09-01-2009, 01:16 PM
they satellite provider gave me the cables fo free.. so i dont need to buy no cables.
_AnGeL_
09-01-2009, 01:21 PM
say i get the yamaha receiver, its rated @ 80 wrms @ 8 ohms per channel would i have a problem running each channel @ 4 ohms?
do these thing protect like car audio stuff?
:crap:
You can always try... Are the speakers you are looking at 4 ohms?
Most of them will be 8 ohms. most
_AnGeL_
09-01-2009, 01:30 PM
You can always try... Are the speakers you are looking at 4 ohms?
no, the ones im looking at are 8 ohm, put the crappy speakers i have now are 4 ohm.
gymfreak101
09-01-2009, 01:30 PM
Been loving my Onkyo 605/606 for the past few years. Running all 7 channels @4ohms... and no problems.
It upscales and upconverts all my inputs, and I only have to hookup ONE WIRE to my tv. Love it.
nG
very nice reciever I just had my problems with it. It would hum for some reason after about an hour of watching a movie and the picture would get a purple tint to it. I sent it back to amazon and got another one and it had the same hum to it. I got on the avs forums and alot of people were having it. I guess the 607 has fixed any bugs they were having. oh and angel toslink = fiber optic cable sorry.
no, the ones im looking at are 8 ohm, put the crappy speakers i have now are 4 ohm.
Well you can always try and see... I do know that the yamaha amps have heat protection, dont know about low input protection. Worst case scenario, it goes into protect :)
pl8er
09-01-2009, 01:36 PM
I disagree here. TV technology has progressed WAY beyond broadcasting technology thus far, and continues to improve faster than the media broadcasting technology can.
Yes, everything is moving to HDMI, and in the future, this will be the cable that is used pretty universally. But by that time, there will probably be something newer and better, possibly even wireless. Until HDMI becomes the standard as opposed to the upper crust, I say save your cash because by the time it becomes the standard the prices will have dropped and like said, there could be something better.
TV manufacturers have already started working on wireless HD connections. My guess is that they will have started producing some form of this before broadcasting (cable, sattelite, Blu-ray(after DVD is phased out))all catch up to be able to take advantage of the display technology.
**Cliffs** Technology moves so fast that the average consumer is better off saving money by staying behind technology trends and upgrading later, if needed.
Although your point is valid not purchasing features that are currently heavily utilized because future technology may render it obsolete just doesn't make total sense to me. Especially when it is a valuable and noticeable improvement. If you can get something in your price range that has it, I would.
gymfreak101
09-01-2009, 01:36 PM
Nominal impedance is an average rating over all frequencies, most home theatre speakers have a nominal of 4.7 ohms and should not damge the reciever because they will not dip below 4. Got this straight from the yamaha site but tried to look smart lol.
_AnGeL_
09-01-2009, 01:37 PM
Nominal impedance is an average rating over all frequencies, most home theatre speakers have a nominal of 4.7 ohms and should not damge the reciever because they will not dip below 4. Got this straight from the yamaha site but tried to look smart lol.
:laugh:
You are comparing digital vs analog. digital pwns imo.
Har.
CockMuncher
09-01-2009, 04:09 PM
Har.
I seriously have seen the difference between component and HDMi.
Although your point is valid not purchasing features that are currently heavily utilized because future technology may render it obsolete just doesn't make total sense to me. Especially when it is a valuable and noticeable improvement. If you can get something in your price range that has it, I would.
But when you look at his price range, and the fact that the ones that have HDMI that are close to his price range only use it as a video pass through (as gymfreak mentioned), and he only has one device that makes use of the HDMI output, then what is the point in spending the extra money?
Furthermore, HDMI is not really heavily utilized ATM, it is heavily advertised and heavily pushed onto the market, but there are very few media broadcasting venues that are outputting a signal that requires an HDMI connection. Dish network claims to broadcast in 1080p, but very few of their programs, if any, are recorded in 1080p. Most programs on sattelite or cable providers line ups are broadcast in 1080i, if they were recorded at that resolution. And 1080i can be carried over component cable just as well as over HDMI.
The only solid advantage the HDMI would offer would be running audio and video over one cable, and on the recievers in his budget, would be a moot point as they would not support audio over HDMI.
I am not disputing the usefulness or advantages of HDMI, I know they are there :) . But the market has just started to scratch the surface of its usefulness.
CockMuncher
09-01-2009, 07:08 PM
My 3rd gen Sony 37" plasma is on its 7th year, I discovered why plasma TVs had issues failing, aside from the screen burns(thats a given). Its because nobody cleans their TVs, They collect a LOT of dust. every few months ill run some compressed air through it get all the fans cleaned. Helps a lot. anywho sorry to go off track there, but I just wanted to say that one of my tv's(the sony) has a DVI port lol, it has no HDMI. My other one has a HDMI.
The DVI market never hit hard on TVs unfortunately.
I don't really care about what the connectivity technology is, as long as there remains the ability to separate processing from the amplification. I have no desire to buy a home theater receiver at all, I'd much rather keep swapping out processors as technology changes, and keep a solid multichannel or several monoblock amplifiers around.
I seriously have seen the difference between component and HDMi.
I was half joking when I said that...only half :D
I seriously have seen the difference between component and HDMi.
I am completely 100% positive that you have percieved a difference between the two, but that does not mean there is a difference. On two identical displays, with identical inputs, the majority of the people viewing will not notice a difference. Those that do notice a difference, have simply convinced themselves that there is a difference. Placebo effect is an amazing thing, isnt it?
bluecar
09-01-2009, 10:06 PM
If the only thing you have that is capable of outputting via HDMI is your sattelite reciever, save your monies. You can run HDMI from your sat reciever to your TV, and optical audio from your sat reciever to your HT reciever for audio, then run everything else through a component cable to a different input on your TV.
This is what I do with my PS3.
And cockmuncher... How is that processor the best bang for the buck? :loco:
At $700 I can find a Yamaha that can do everything that I need it to do, and then some, and it already has an amp built into it... Best bang for the buck does not equal the best money can buy...
I am not so certain. In my mind, is it not similar to running speakers off the HU vs. a small external amp?
I am completely 100% positive that you have percieved a difference between the two, but that does not mean there is a difference. On two identical displays, with identical inputs, the majority of the people viewing will not notice a difference. Those that do notice a difference, have simply convinced themselves that there is a difference. Placebo effect is an amazing thing, isnt it?
If HDMI allows for a different signal to pass through then it may be worth it.
I can tell the difference between the yellow RCA vs HDMI because the PS3 won't do 1080p over the yellow RCA.
This is what I do with my PS3.
Me too
I am not so certain. In my mind, is it not similar to running speakers off the HU vs. a small external amp?
I suppose that is a spot on analogy. But how does that still make it "best bang for the buck"? If the Yamaha has a sufficient amplifier and you are looking for an all-in-one solution with the ability to upgrade later, would you rather spend ~$200 now and get a better amp later, or $700 + an amplifier now?
If HDMI allows for a different signal to pass through then it may be worth it.
I can tell the difference between the yellow RCA vs HDMI because the PS3 won't do 1080p over the yellow RCA.
HDMI does allow for only one different type of signal to pass through it. 1080p, and we have already noted that he only has one source that can even use an HDMI cable, regaurdless of whether or not it needs it for that one type of signal. Otherwise, component cables are capable of carrying up to a 1080i signal, and there will be no difference between 1080i carried over component cables or HDMI cable. Just the amount of connections (3 vs 1). The difference between composite (the yellow cable) and HDMI is vast.
Even in the OP's situation, the need for an HDMI cable from his one source that can ouput via HDMI is arguable.
bluecar
09-01-2009, 10:15 PM
TBH, I can tell a bigger difference between 480i and 480p than I can any other x vs. y. My TV has the channel 2 then channel 2-1 (one in 480i other 480p) I can tell quite a bit of difference.
TBH, I can tell a bigger difference between 480i and 480p than I can any other x vs. y. My TV has the channel 2 then channel 2-1 (one in 480i other 480p) I can tell quite a bit of difference.
Yup, I have stated this for a while. It is the rule of diminishing returns. You can keep doubling the amount of lines all you want, but at some point it stops being useful.
This is why most projectors still use a native 720p display. The difference between that and 1080i is minimal, and the cost of 1080p projectors are still pretty sky high...
bluecar
09-01-2009, 10:18 PM
Me too
I suppose that is a spot on analogy. But how does that still make it "best bang for the buck"? If the Yamaha has a sufficient amplifier and you are looking for an all-in-one solution with the ability to upgrade later, would you rather spend ~$200 now and get a better amp later, or $700 + an amplifier now?
I chose an older model Pioneer Elite with all the whiz-bang audio decoding. It doesn't do HDMI video so it is similar to the issue at hand.
I mentioned this only to see if such concerns were valid. I am not sure about the internal amp on this receiver and how much better would it be to buy an external amp (the 5 channel emotiva). I wasn't sure if the Receiver :: HU was analgous or not.
I still don't understand why car audio is so much cheaper than home audio.
I chose an older model Pioneer Elite with all the whiz-bang audio decoding. It doesn't do HDMI video so it is similar to the issue at hand.
I mentioned this only to see if such concerns were valid. I am not sure about the internal amp on this receiver and how much better would it be to buy an external amp (the 5 channel emotiva). I wasn't sure if the Receiver :: HU was analgous or not.
I still don't understand why car audio is so much cheaper than home audio.
It was pretty spot on. IMHO, if the on-board amp can meet your needs, use it. If not then you can always upgrade.
As for why car audio is so much cheaper than home, my only guess would be because car audio is *generally* a broader market. More people customize their car stereos than their home, and more people own cars than homes :shrug:.
My home reciever doesnt do HDMI and I am unbothered by it. My TV has two HDMI inputs, I only use HDMI for my ps3 since it is the only thing I have that actually has media that can utilize it... Cable box uses component, xbox360 uses component, and my remote control uses RF and macros so everything switches seamlessly. HDMI is a non-issue for me at the present time. When/if cable and sattelite really start utilizing 1080p I might start considering it.
evildave101
09-01-2009, 10:25 PM
i still rock a "round screen" TV :fyi:
ngsm13
09-02-2009, 11:51 AM
Hoss, it's beneficial that most receivers now do upscaling as well as upconverting.
Hell, my dad's $350 from over 2 years ago does...
This takes any input, and outputs it via HDMI (upconvert) and it will also convert the resolution to 480p/720/1080i (upscale). Also, it has assignable audio inputs.
Therefore as long as his TV has HDMI input, he can benefit from athe receiver by only having to have ONE SINGLE WIRE hooked up to his TV (hdmi) for all video and audio signal...
Now instead of having to change the input on your TV, then the input on your receiver, back and forth, and adjusting everytime you want to watch something else... all you do is leave your tv on hdmi input 24/7... and select what you want to watch from your receiver....
nG
ngsm13
09-02-2009, 11:54 AM
Another note, best investment ever is a logitech universal remote.
I use a Harmony ONE, and it's my favorite HT item...
nG
Hoss, it's beneficial that most receivers now do upscaling as well as upconverting.
Hell, my dad's $350 from over 2 years ago does...
This takes any input, and outputs it via HDMI (upconvert) and it will also convert the resolution to 480p/720/1080i (upscale). Also, it has assignable audio inputs.
Therefore as long as his TV has HDMI input, he can benefit from athe receiver by only having to have ONE SINGLE WIRE hooked up to his TV (hdmi) for all video and audio signal...
Now instead of having to change the input on your TV, then the input on your receiver, back and forth, and adjusting everytime you want to watch something else... all you do is leave your tv on hdmi input 24/7... and select what you want to watch from your receiver....
nG
Ehh, I still disagree, but then again I dont like upconverting units usually. I dont need everything to be in HD, and I dont want a line doubler, if it is in HD great, if not, I am not concerned. The things that I really want to watch in HD, usually are in HD (football, discovery channel, thats about it...). As for switching the input on your TV, I believe I said earlier in this thread that if you have a remote with macro's you are set :)
Another note, best investment ever is a logitech universal remote.
I use a Harmony ONE, and it's my favorite HT item...
nG
Can definitly agree here :) . I have the 880 and the 890. Had the 1000 and did not like it...
Echo42987
09-02-2009, 01:59 PM
say i get the yamaha receiver, its rated @ 80 wrms @ 8 ohms per channel would i have a problem running each channel @ 4 ohms?
do these thing protect like car audio stuff?
:crap:
most will switch IMP automatically. But I'll take a pic of my setup tonight so you can see a real mans audio stage :)
ngsm13
09-02-2009, 03:05 PM
Yeah, the upconverting to me (component to HDMI) is a bigger deal than the upscaling (resolution)...
All of my inputs are capable of 1080i natively... so it doesn't matter too much...
nG
pl8er
09-02-2009, 03:28 PM
Yeah, the upconverting to me (component to HDMI) is a bigger deal than the upscaling (resolution)...
All of my inputs are capable of 1080i natively... so it doesn't matter too much...
nG
Same here. I do love having just a single cable running to the tv.
gymfreak101
09-02-2009, 05:22 PM
Another note, best investment ever is a logitech universal remote.
I use a Harmony ONE, and it's my favorite HT item...
nG
oh really where did you get it from ?
Amazon.com and buy.com have the best deals on them.
ngsm13
09-02-2009, 06:15 PM
I got mine from some feg... Jim Freeq or something...
nG
I have an 880 that I am not using.
gymfreak101
09-02-2009, 07:35 PM
Amazon.com and buy.com have the best deals on them.
I was kidding I sold him the harmony one, I bought the 1100 but don't really like it because its so big. I sold the 880 to someone else also, I think its the best deal but the only problem I had was all the buttons being flush and having to look at the remote to do something on it. I could never remember the button locations by touch.
I was kidding I sold him the harmony one, I bought the 1100 but don't really like it because its so big. I sold the 880 to someone else also, I think its the best deal but the only problem I had was all the buttons being flush and having to look at the remote to do something on it. I could never remember the button locations by touch.
Ahh.
I sold my 1000 because the touch screen SUCKED... It never got anything right, and was a PITA because you had to look at it. Someone warned me about that, and I didnt listen :laugh:
I have the 890 now, which is the same as the 880 except it has RF, which is pretty sweat. I dont have any problem remembering where the buttons are, but then again I have been using the same remote for 4 or so years now...
gymfreak101
09-02-2009, 07:48 PM
the rf is nice and I was looking at the harmony 900 the other day but even amazon wants 400 dollars for it. Its just the harmony one with rf and they took away macros.
I got my 890 as a refurb for about $150 shipped from buy.com.
I found the best price by just doing a google shopping search and sorting to lowest price.
gymfreak101
09-02-2009, 07:58 PM
I got my 890 as a refurb for about $150 shipped from buy.com.
I found the best price by just doing a google shopping search and sorting to lowest price.
I got the amazon prime account and usually amazon has the lowest price and most of the other places that might beat them are amazon market stores. So I always get the free overnight.
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