Health Care and what not.

[IDSkot]

I'm writing a research paper, and I'm trying to come up with a few solutions for it. I have to have 3.
The one I'm pretty set on so far is subsidizing Health Insurance companies to allow lower rates, and giving discounts for lower-income families.
As for the other two, I'm not really sure. I was kind of thinking of maybe Government owned and run Hospitals / Medical facilities where it's free, and they have specialists and what not. I can't really think of any more that aren't just variations of those two.

[Toasted1]

I was that free shit like Canada has, I would even be willing to drink my milk from a bag if it would make it happen.

[IDSkot]

I was that free shit like Canada has, I would even be willing to drink my milk from a bag if it would make it happen.

Do you mean socialized health care? That's an other option. But, I mean, that's kind of just saying "government owned and run hospitals." But more like a mix of both subsidizing health care companies and the government owning the hospitals.

[wasted ink]

I was that free shit like Canada has, I would even be willing to drink my milk from a bag if it would make it happen.

Yea and no. Free health care is win, but a 30 rack is like, $50 up there. Everything else is jacked to make up for it. Drinks at the bars weren't too bad, though.

[bluecar]

What's wrong with the status quo?

[IDSkot]

Yea and no. Free health care is win, but a 30 rack is like, $50 up there. Everything else is jacked to make up for it. Drinks at the bars weren't too bad, though.

30 rack of what?
But, yeah, for socialized health care, insurance goes up. But, I mean, I think it's worth it. Most people who are opposed are rich people who already have health insurance and don't want to be taxed. The thought of helping other people makes them sick. :rolleyes:

[wasted ink]

30 rack of what?

Beer?

[IDSkot]

What's wrong with the status quo?

People die due to the lack of sufficient money for proper care, not to mention A LOT of health insurance companies don't cover preventive care. The whole motto "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies for them, which is garbage. People aren't engines.

[IDSkot]

Beer?

They make 30 packs?! What the fuck? I thought it was just 6, 12, 24, 32, 64.

[wasted ink]

They make 30 packs?! What the fuck? I thought it was just 6, 12, 24, 32, 64.

:eek::eek::crap::crap:

[IDSkot]

:eek::eek::crap::crap:

I don't drink beer. Forgive my ignorance.

[wasted ink]

I don't drink beer. Forgive my ignorance.

You're forgiven. You don't drink beer?

[bluecar]

30 rack of what?
But, yeah, for socialized health care, insurance goes up. But, I mean, I think it's worth it. Most people who are opposed are rich people who already have health insurance and don't want to be taxed. The thought of helping other people makes them sick. :rolleyes:

Or they believe, as do I, that specific contributions to charities will do much more good than the government.

Today, I drove to KY to make a somewhat significant contribution to a fund raiser to help out families in distress. If the govt took that money, they would have wasted it. I believe that church will maximize the value of my contribution. Do you honestly believe the government is more effective than managing money than those who become wealthy?

[IDSkot]

You're forgiven. You don't drink beer?

Ever since I was 16, I've had stomach problems. I don't imagine alcohol would help at all. I occasionally will have a beer. I rarely finish that beer. Most of the time I drink half and give the rest to a friend.

[wasted ink]

Ever since I was 16, I've had stomach problems. I don't imagine alcohol would help at all. I occasionally will have a beer. I rarely finish that beer. Most of the time I drink half and give the rest to a friend.

Ahhh right on. I forgot about that. That really sucks, man.

[IDSkot]

Ahhh right on. I forgot about that. That really sucks, man.

Ain't that bad.
Back to the topic.
Health care reform. Discuss.

[bluecar]

Ain't that bad.
Back to the topic.
Health care reform. Discuss.

Health care is not a right; meaning illegal immigrants should not be entitled to free healthcare through the emergency room.

Using incentives to keep people from using the emergency room instead of their primary care physician.

[IDSkot]

Health care is not a right; meaning illegal immigrants should not be entitled to free healthcare through the emergency room.

Using incentives to keep people from using the emergency room instead of their primary care physician.

I don't think that's true at all. I think if you can help someone, it should be done, regardless of the cost. You can't put a price on someone's life. Or, rather, let someone die due to their lack of financial wealth.

[bluecar]

I don't think that's true at all. I think if you can help someone, it should be done, regardless of the cost. You can't put a price on someone's life. Or, rather, let someone die due to their lack of financial wealth.

Then who should pay? If your method of financing is "taxing the rich" then what happens if no one decides be rich. If you tax anything over amount "x" too high, then there is no reason why anyone would want to make that kind of wealth. Do you think IBM would have revolutionized the computer industry if there was an implicit cap on income? Consider how many jobs revolve around the computer industry...if entreprenuers are capped, then why invent? They won't...they will settle for a 9-5.

If you limit the income of drs, fewer people will become doctors.
If you limit the income of trial lawyers, doctors will become sloppy.

Again, who pays? What if that income source dries up?

[IDSkot]

Then who should pay? If your method of financing is "taxing the rich" then what happens if no one decides be rich. If you tax anything over amount "x" too high, then there is no reason why anyone would want to make that kind of wealth. Do you think IBM would have revolutionized the computer industry if there was an implicit cap on income? Consider how many jobs revolve around the computer industry...if entreprenuers are capped, then why invent? They won't...they will settle for a 9-5.

If you limit the income of drs, fewer people will become doctors.
If you limit the income of trial lawyers, doctors will become sloppy.

Again, who pays? What if that income source dries up?

Who said a cap on income? It's not even implied in my statement. But, it is logic and greed like that that really puts us in the predicament. Where, financial gain is more important than people's lives. I agree, the money has to come somewhere, and somehow taxing people who have a multi-million dollar home, a myriad of cars are worth more than $100,000 dollars a small percentage of their income to help people who don't have as much as they do, so that that person can live, seems like a small price to pay.

I suppose now you're going to take up the argument that the multimillionaire earned it, and the other people didn't. This is true. But, let's say you make 30K a year, and someone said, "If you give me $20 dollars, this person can live." would you do it? In terms of percentage, that's .066% of your income. Are you willing to sacrifice that for a human's life? It's an argument of morals, and selfishness.

[bluecar]

Who said a cap on income? It's not even implied in my statement. But, it is logic and greed like that that really puts us in the predicament. Where, financial gain is more important than people's lives. I agree, the money has to come somewhere, and somehow taxing people who have a multi-million dollar home, a myriad of cars are worth more than $100,000 dollars a small percentage of their income to help people who don't have as much as they do, so that that person can live, seems like a small price to pay.

I suppose now you're going to take up the argument that the multimillionaire earned it, and the other people didn't. This is true. But, let's say you make 30K a year, and someone said, "If you give me $20 dollars, this person can live." would you do it? In terms of percentage, that's .066% of your income. Are you willing to sacrifice that for a human's life? It's an argument of morals, and selfishness.

I am arguing that the incentive to create businesses is reduced if you tax at extraordinarily high rates. In the late 1950s, people who made over (iirc) $500k were taxed at ~90%. So the marginal value of every dollar in salary over $500k is near zero....thus an implicit cap on wages. Why would someone seek occupations that paid that much if it were going to taxes? Would you want to have a job that was extremely time consuming and stressful for $1MM when you can do less than half the work, make $500k? In the end, both of you are equal as far as income is concerned.

I have not seen a model by which there is sustainable costs to healthcare. Healthcare costs rise whether or not you have the revenue.

I don't think you realize how expensive health care acutally is. I don't believe socializing it would make it cheaper. Rationing it and limiting the wages of doctors would...but those both have consequences. I have yet to see a socialized medicine program without rationing.

[pl8er]

Many European countries (I'm thinking Germany) have a system much like Canada. The exception is that if your wealthy you can pay for faster response time. The gov't still pays the bills but you pay above that so you get right in. Many of my Canadian friends say if you just have a cold and want to get in, you will wait so long you're normally better before you get there.

[bluecar]

Many European countries (I'm thinking Germany) have a system much like Canada. The exception is that if your wealthy you can pay for faster response time. The gov't still pays the bills but you pay above that so you get right in. Many of my Canadian friends say if you just have a cold and want to get in, you will wait so long you're normally better before you get there.

But to some, since it is free it is better.

The dual system sucks for the upper middle class. They have to pay the taxes, but aren't wealthy enough to afford private insurance.

[IDSkot]

I am arguing that the incentive to create businesses is reduced if you tax at extraordinarily high rates. In the late 1950s, people who made over (iirc) $500k were taxed at ~90%. So the marginal value of every dollar in salary over $500k is near zero....thus an implicit cap on wages. Why would someone seek occupations that paid that much if it were going to taxes? Would you want to have a job that was extremely time consuming and stressful for $1MM when you can do less than half the work, make $500k? In the end, both of you are equal as far as income is concerned.

I have not seen a model by which there is sustainable costs to healthcare. Healthcare costs rise whether or not you have the revenue.

I don't think you realize how expensive health care acutally is. I don't believe socializing it would make it cheaper. Rationing it and limiting the wages of doctors would...but those both have consequences. I have yet to see a socialized medicine program without rationing.

Who said anything about extraordinary taxation rates?
I understand how much medical care is... I've been in and out of the hospital many times in the past 2 years. My last visit was for 4 days, and was 30K dollars. Now, what I don't understand is why. @ 30K for 4 days, that's 7.5K dollars a day. For what? I had an IV, and a stay in the ICU... but other than that, that was all. I don't understand how they can charge an average of 7,500 dollars for an IV and Nurses. I would imagine the bills for the hospital themselves to be high... but, that doesn't justify that high amount. That's a full year's pay for some people.

[bluecar]

Who said anything about extraordinary taxation rates?
I understand how much medical care is... I've been in and out of the hospital many times in the past 2 years. My last visit was for 4 days, and was 30K dollars. Now, what I don't understand is why. @ 30K for 4 days, that's 7.5K dollars a day. For what? I had an IV, and a stay in the ICU... but other than that, that was all. I don't understand how they can charge an average of 7,500 dollars for an IV and Nurses. I would imagine the bills for the hospital themselves to be high... but, that doesn't justify that high amount. That's a full year's pay for some people.

Because of the amount of people who go to the hospital without health insurance...they have to make up for it some how.

What if you went into WalMart and 1/2 the customers stole everything in their carts. Wouldn't they have to raise their prices to cover the theives?

Socialized medicine makes it so only those who work illegally are thieves. Immagrants and natives who work under the table. Because then, everyone will be contributing, the costs lower. However, because people no longer have to pay, they are more apt to go to the dr. Instead of taking an aspirin and going to bed, people go to the dr because it is free. Because of the high demand, healthcare is rationed.

[Rashaddd]

Or they believe, as do I, that specific contributions to charities will do much more good than the government.

Today, I drove to KY to make a somewhat significant contribution to a fund raiser to help out families in distress. If the govt took that money, they would have wasted it. I believe that church will maximize the value of my contribution. Do you honestly believe the government is more effective than managing money than those who become wealthy?

Yes, a gigantic impressive church building filled with tons of expensive decoration/etc and a few people in charge who are living well = maximization achieved.

1. Many charities are nowhere near as good as they seem.
2. People are greedy, and the majority of these very wealthy people donate only a very small chunk of that wealth to any charity, if any at all.

[bluecar]

Yes, a gigantic impressive church building filled with tons of expensive decoration/etc and a few people in charge who are living well = maximization achieved.

1. Many charities are nowhere near as good as they seem.
2. People are greedy, and the majority of these very wealthy people donate only a very small chunk of that wealth to any charity, if any at all.

That isn't the church I went to, but I get what you are saying. Even still, I'd rather give to a church or other charity versus the government.

Because they chose not to donate, it is the duty of the government to take it?

[IDSkot]

That isn't the church I went to, but I get what you are saying. Even still, I'd rather give to a church or other charity versus the government.

Because they chose not to donate, it is the duty of the government to take it?

That's kind of the point, yes. In a controlled society, everyone is supposed to help everyone else. At least that's how it once was. Now it's 'all for one, and one for none.' No one wants to give help, but everyone wants to receive it.

[icpurplepplalot]

I have health insurance :fyi:

[icpurplepplalot]

Just thought I'd let you know

[bluecar]

That's kind of the point, yes. In a controlled society, everyone is supposed to help everyone else. At least that's how it once was. Now it's 'all for one, and one for none.' No one wants to give help, but everyone wants to receive it.

Why is everyone supposed to help everyone else?

That's how it once was? When? When a great portion of the US population were slaves? When Lords and Kings ruled over serfs with an iron fist?

The confisgation of wealth to achieve moral outcomes is not the purpose of government.

[slim8605]

I have health insurance :fyi:

This

/thread

[Spider Monkey]

Everyone step aside. The monkey is ITT.

I'm writing a research paper, and I'm trying to come up with a few solutions for it. I have to have 3.
The one I'm pretty set on so far is subsidizing Health Insurance companies to allow lower rates, and giving discounts for lower-income families.
As for the other two, I'm not really sure. I was kind of thinking of maybe Government owned and run Hospitals / Medical facilities where it's free, and they have specialists and what not. I can't really think of any more that aren't just variations of those two.

#1 Stop allowing the mentality that healthcare is a right. Cuz it fucking isn't.
#2 Stop forcing hospitals to treat the uninsured.
#3 Stop allowing the insurance carriers dictate what a doctor charges.



There, I just fixed your healthcare. Paper over. Keep your god damn goverment out of my fucking healthcare.

[Rashaddd]

Why is everyone supposed to help everyone else?

That's how it once was? When? When a great portion of the US population were slaves? When Lords and Kings ruled over serfs with an iron fist?

The confisgation of wealth to achieve moral outcomes is not the purpose of government.

In islamic societies it is like this, even the corrupt ones like saudi arabia do a very good job of taking care of their poor. Many other countries do a much better job taking care of their poor than we do as well...here in a America we are too busy being 'free' to bother with anything that doesn't directly benefit ourselves...

[Spider Monkey]

No, here in America we are too busy making money to give a shit about poor people.

[bluecar]

Everyone step aside. The monkey is ITT.

#1 Stop allowing the mentality that healthcare is a right. Cuz it fucking isn't.
#2 Stop forcing hospitals to treat the uninsured.
#3 Stop allowing the insurance carriers dictate what a doctor charges.

There, I just fixed your healthcare. Paper over. Keep your god damn goverment out of my fucking healthcare.

Why not?

Shouldn't they be able to negotiate price? An insurance company has a large pool of customers with healthcare needs. Wouldn't the end user be better served by the insurance company's ability to negotiate price?


In islamic societies it is like this, even the corrupt ones like saudi arabia do a very good job of taking care of their poor. Many other countries do a much better job taking care of their poor than we do as well...here in a America we are too busy being 'free' to bother with anything that doesn't directly benefit ourselves...

We are not Islamic, now are we. Obviously, we do not feel that taking care of the poor is the highest and best use of our time and money.

[Spider Monkey]

Shouldn't they be able to negotiate price? An insurance company has a large pool of customers with healthcare needs. Wouldn't the end user be better served by the insurance company's ability to negotiate price?

Look at the cost of healthcare. Think it is too high? Guess who sets the cost. Key word in bold. Yes, negotiate, dictate no.

[Rashaddd]

If your only concern is yourself, by all means go ahead and keep being selfish, but there are many people who feel that we shouldn't behave this way, and they will try to change that. Unfortunately you live in a country where the majority can have a significant influence, and when the majority of people aren't making it anymore because the minority has been making ass loads of money off their backs for hundreds of years, they will vote that you must give some of that money back. America has been running on hot air for years, and it's silly to think that we won't eventually level out our living standards with the rest of the world.

[bluecar]

Look at the cost of healthcare. Think it is too high? Guess who sets the cost. Key word in bold. Yes, negotiate, dictate no.

Aren't they the same?

From my perspective insurance companies say

"We are willing to pay $100 for an exam"

Doctors are free to take it or leave it.

What that does do is provide no incentive for the doctor willing to do the exam for $90. Perhaps that is what you are getting at. The ceiling of $100 rises all doctors to that price.

[bluecar]

If your only concern is yourself, by all means go ahead and keep being selfish, but there are many people who feel that we shouldn't behave this way, and they will try to change that. Unfortunately you live in a country where the majority can have a significant influence, and when the majority of people aren't making it anymore because the minority has been making ass loads of money off their backs for hundreds of years, they will vote that you must give some of that money back. America has been running on hot air for years, and it's silly to think that we won't eventually level out our living standards with the rest of the world.

Ever heard of an athlete? Those people willingly shed out their hard earned bucks to watch some loudmouth catch a ball for $1MM a minute. If they were that hard up on change, why would they patronize the system?

So, this "majority" picks and chooses who should be rich?

[wasted ink]

Ever heard of an athelete?

Seth?

[bluecar]

Seth?

lol.

I used the apostrophe correctly, so no.

Good catch on the typo.

[Rashaddd]

Ever heard of an athelete? Those people willingly shed out their hard earned bucks to watch some loudmouth catch a ball for $1MM a minute. If they were that hard up on change, why would they patronize the system?

So, this "majority" picks and chooses who should be rich?

Because they get entertainment out of it. Rich athletes represent a very very small portion of people...And a very very small portion of rich people as well. Look at walmart's ownership...

[bluecar]

Because they get entertainment out of it. Rich athletes represent a very very small portion of people...And a very very small portion of rich people as well. Look at walmart's ownership...

People underestimate the good things wal-mart is done. They have driven down prices so that a variety of goods are much more affordable than they'd otherwise be. Not only their prices, but the impact of prices of their competitors. I am thankful that Wal-Mart exists.

[wasted ink]

lol.

I used the apostrophe correctly, so no.

Good catch on the typo.

Lawl, had to be said.

[Rashaddd]

People underestimate the good things wal-mart is done. They have driven down prices so that a variety of goods are much more affordable than they'd otherwise be. Not only their prices, but the impact of prices of their competitors. I am thankful that Wal-Mart exists.

Problem is you don't see the hidden costs and immoralities of what is getting things that way. Walmart allows you to have a better life in exchange for someone else having a shitty one. It's bad enough the way they operate in other parts of the world on the manufacturing side, but the way they treat their employees is just ridiculous.

You are thankful wal-mart exists because you benefit from its existence (for now at least). Too bad by keeping poor countries poor, we only are keeping the floor that much further below us, and giving us farther to fall when we do, which we will. And I think it's safe to say we are slipping as of now by the looks of things...

[Rashaddd]

If you had not been so lucky to be born on this side of the system, rather than on the asian sweatshop side, would you still talk about how great the american system is? How nice the things walmart is doing for them? Paying you pennies to labor almost endlessly, making billions off your hard work, and still driving the price of goods (and subsequently the value of your labor) down? Sound good?

[bluecar]

If you had not been so lucky to be born on this side of the system, rather than on the asian sweatshop side, would you still talk about how great the american system is? How nice the things walmart is doing for them? Paying you pennies to labor almost endlessly, making billions off your hard work, and still driving the price of goods (and subsequently the value of your labor) down? Sound good?

I wouldn't mind making pennies an hour if the things I could purchase are also cheap. It's not about dollars per hour, but about purchasing power.

Secondly, the American system still provides opportunity that no other country offers.

[bluecar]

Problem is you don't see the hidden costs and immoralities of what is getting things that way. Walmart allows you to have a better life in exchange for someone else having a shitty one. It's bad enough the way they operate in other parts of the world on the manufacturing side, but the way they treat their employees is just ridiculous.

You are thankful wal-mart exists because you benefit from its existence (for now at least). Too bad by keeping poor countries poor, we only are keeping the floor that much further below us, and giving us farther to fall when we do, which we will. And I think it's safe to say we are slipping as of now by the looks of things...

I have worked in retail before and I thought it was great. My job responsibilities were minimal and my pay reflected it. There was no reason to pay me more than $7 or $8/hr to run a cash register. There was no reason to pay me more than $7 or $8 to clean restrooms at a truck stop. The work wasn't hard, time consuming, etc.

How should the treat the employees? How should a person who has no responsibility other than to scan items be treated? Should they make $20/hr? If so, then why should people try to better themselves to find jobs that make $20/hr. Any time you raise a minimum wage (or other componets of a fully burdened labor rate) you crowd out the productivity of the marginally better employee.


If it was not for Wal-Mart, what would those working the sweatshops be doing? Farming for rice? If there was no demand for cheap manufacturered goods, there would be no cheap supply. I believe those workers would be worse off without American demand for cheap goods. Look at their standard of living before American investment and then after. The Chinese are becoming more wealthy, even if it isn't by leaps and bounds. Or perhaps you are suggesting that work be done here. If so, imagine the famine that would occur if the billions we have invested overseas somehow vanished.

[Spider Monkey]

If your only concern is yourself, by all means go ahead and keep being selfish, but there are many people who feel that we shouldn't behave this way, and they will try to change that.

I know. I vote against them every four years.

[Rashaddd]

I wouldn't mind making pennies an hour if the things I could purchase are also cheap. It's not about dollars per hour, but about purchasing power.

Secondly, the American system still provides opportunity that no other country offers.

Those manufacturing workers in asia aren't getting things cheap. They, for the most part, work nonstop asside from eating and sleeping, maybe a day off once every week, and still can barely afford to live. Is it better than farming rice? Idk, personally I like the idea of a society that isn't so concerned with money, but rather with life. We live to work in america, so that we can get richer and richer and richer (which realistically only ends up in the hands of the people at the top). I think it is better to work to live, than to live to work.

Even if we say definitively that the changes in life we have brought to china have changed it for the better, if it were up to these companies such as walmart, we wouldn't have. Putting more money into china is just an unavoidable byproduct for walmart. Walmart pays an asian worker less than a dollar to make the sweatshirt you so graciously pay 15 bucks for. Where is the delta between those two prices? It's not in shipping. It's not in paying their employees barely enough to live off of and referring them to government assistance for healthcare instead of giving them any kind of benefits. It's going straight into the hands of the wealthy people who already have it. God bless Walmart.

[bunkerking09]

just keep in mind that socialized health care is very easy to find plenty of flaws as well, i would steer clear from it

[bluecar]

Those manufacturing workers in asia aren't getting things cheap. They, for the most part, work nonstop asside from eating and sleeping, maybe a day off once every week, and still can barely afford to live. Is it better than farming rice? Idk, personally I like the idea of a society that isn't so concerned with money, but rather with life. We live to work in america, so that we can get richer and richer and richer (which realistically only ends up in the hands of the people at the top). I think it is better to work to live, than to live to work.

In American society (the only society I know), we work to make money to buy things for our enjoyment when we aren't working. I understand there are flaws and maybe some people would rather do without an iPod in exchange for the right to kick their feet up a few extra hours. Maybe there is some value there. I am not certain I want to make that tradeoff.

Even if we say definitively that the changes in life we have brought to china have changed it for the better, if it were up to these companies such as walmart, we wouldn't have. Putting more money into china is just an unavoidable byproduct for walmart. Walmart pays an asian worker less than a dollar to make the sweatshirt you so graciously pay 15 bucks for. Where is the delta between those two prices? It's not in shipping. It's not in paying their employees barely enough to live off of and referring them to government assistance for healthcare instead of giving them any kind of benefits. It's going straight into the hands of the wealthy people who already have it. God bless Walmart.

I'd argue it's far more effecient for them to mass produce shirts for a buck than it is for me to try to make one myself.

[Spider Monkey]

just keep in mind that socialized health care is very easy to find plenty of flaws as well, i would steer clear from it

Oh trust me. I'm waiting for that to get whipped out.

[IDSkot]

I have health insurance :fyi:

Me, too... My mom pays like $130 bi-weekly for it.

Everyone step aside. The monkey is ITT.



#1 Stop allowing the mentality that healthcare is a right. Cuz it fucking isn't.
#2 Stop forcing hospitals to treat the uninsured.
#3 Stop allowing the insurance carriers dictate what a doctor charges.



There, I just fixed your healthcare. Paper over. Keep your god damn goverment out of my fucking healthcare.

:bow: Thank you for gracing us with your presence.
And how is health care not a right? Should health be in direct relation with the amount of financial wealth you have?

I think #3 boils down to the fact that all of it costs so much. My friend's Dad is a Doctor... not even a good one. He has a Porshe 911 Turbo, a nice house in the center of one of the riches neighborhoods in Florida, bought his daughter a brand new Mini Cooper, she wrecked it. So he bought her a brand new Passat. His wife goes to Cuba once every month, and Morocco three times a year, at least. He isn't struggling at all. Even in this horrible economy. So, explain... why the hell should doctors get so much money? I understand what they do is important and necessary, and requires a lot of training. Janitors are all of those save the training... and they get paid minimum wage.

[Spider Monkey]

Me, too... My mom pays like $130 bi-weekly for it.

Holy shit she is gettign ripped off. I pay $30 a month for 100% coverage.



:bow: Thank you for gracing us with your presence.
And how is health care not a right? Should health be in direct relation with the amount of financial wealth you have?

Simply put, yes. It is a commodity. It is not a basic right such as air, water, etc.

I think #3 boils down to the fact that all of it costs so much. My friend's Dad is a Doctor... not even a good one. He has a Porshe 911 Turbo, a nice house in the center of one of the riches neighborhoods in Florida, bought his daughter a brand new Mini Cooper, she wrecked it. So he bought her a brand new Passat. His wife goes to Cuba once every month, and Morocco three times a year, at least. He isn't struggling at all. Even in this horrible economy. So, explain... why the hell should doctors get so much money?

For the same reason laywers and stock brokers make so much money. They wen't to college for 8 years and learned something of high value. They are now getting rewarded for it. The good doctors, the really really good ones, will dissapear if you take that away from them.

Healthcare is cheap when done correctly. When done incorrectly it is expensive as hell. That is the same with anything in life.

[bluecar]

I think #3 boils down to the fact that all of it costs so much. My friend's Dad is a Doctor... not even a good one. He has a Porshe 911 Turbo, a nice house in the center of one of the riches neighborhoods in Florida, bought his daughter a brand new Mini Cooper, she wrecked it. So he bought her a brand new Passat. His wife goes to Cuba once every month, and Morocco three times a year, at least. He isn't struggling at all. Even in this horrible economy. So, explain... why the hell should doctors get so much money? I understand what they do is important and necessary, and requires a lot of training. Janitors are all of those save the training... and they get paid minimum wage.

Ask him would he still be a dr. if he still had to pay all those costs for training, all those opportunity costs, only to live slightly above average.

[IDSkot]

Holy shit she is gettign ripped off. I pay $30 a month for 100% coverage.




Simply put, yes. It is a commodity. It is not a basic right such as air, water, etc.



For the same reason laywers and stock brokers make so much money. They wen't to college for 8 years and learned something of high value. They are now getting rewarded for it. The good doctors, the really really good ones, will dissapear if you take that away from them.

Healthcare is cheap when done correctly. When done incorrectly it is expensive as hell. That is the same with anything in life.

I'll agree that Doctors do deserve to get paid quite a bit. But, at the current rate, it's just ridiculous. A good lawyer also deserves good amount of money. But, like I said, it was $30K for a 4 day stay in the hospital...? My brother's girlfriend had to fork over 2K for stitches in her foot. It wasn't even that big of a cut, either. I would debate more, and more in debt... but I've been writing a paper on this subject for the past 2 days. lmao. I'm sick of the subject right now.

[bluecar]

It is a commodity. It is not a basic right such as air, water, etc.

I believe we have the right to access healthcare. For instance, I don't think the govt should be the one to say what is and what isn't healthcare.

[bluecar]

I'll agree that Doctors do deserve to get paid quite a bit. But, at the current rate, it's just ridiculous. A good lawyer also deserves good amount of money. But, like I said, it was $30K for a 4 day stay in the hospital...? My brother's girlfriend had to fork over 2K for stitches in her foot. It wasn't even that big of a cut, either. I would debate more, and more in debt... but I've been writing a paper on this subject for the past 2 days. lmao. I'm sick of the subject right now.

Then what should they make?

[IDSkot]

I believe we have the right to access healthcare. For instance, I don't think the govt should be the one to say what is and what isn't healthcare.

I think all basic health care should be open to everyone, regardless of political or citizen affiliations. If someone needs a pacemaker, they should get one. But, if someone needs a chiropractor, odds are it's not necessary.

[Spider Monkey]

I'll agree that Doctors do deserve to get paid quite a bit. But, at the current rate, it's just ridiculous. A good lawyer also deserves good amount of money. But, like I said, it was $30K for a 4 day stay in the hospital...?

The doctors do not dicate that cost. Like I said a couple pages ago, the insurance carriers dictate what a procedure costs. Course if you go to the wrong doctor (as in use the healthcare wrong) you're fucked and you deserve to be fucked.

My brother's girlfriend had to fork over 2K for stitches in her foot. It wasn't even that big of a cut, either. I would debate more, and more in debt... but I've been writing a paper on this subject for the past 2 days. lmao. I'm sick of the subject right now.

If the bitch had insurance it would have costed her 20 bucks. What the fuck is the cunt going to the hospital for stitches anyhow? That is why shit is so fucked up. She should have gone outpatient.

[Spider Monkey]

I think all basic health care should be open to everyone, regardless of political or citizen affiliations. If someone needs a pacemaker, they should get one. But, if someone needs a chiropractor, odds are it's not necessary.

You sure you're jewish? I don't know too many socialist jews.

What do you want to be when you grow up?

[Spider Monkey]

I believe we have the right to access healthcare. For instance, I don't think the govt should be the one to say what is and what isn't healthcare.



Access and having are not the same thing.

[Rashaddd]

Real jews would be pretty much 'socialist' by our standards, according to jewish scripture

i believe he's said several times that he's not really jewish though

[IDSkot]

The doctors do not dicate that cost. Like I said a couple pages ago, the insurance carriers dictate what a procedure costs. Course if you go to the wrong doctor (as in use the healthcare wrong) you're fucked and you deserve to be fucked.



If the bitch had insurance it would have costed her 20 bucks. What the fuck is the cunt going to the hospital for stitches anyhow? That is why shit is so fucked up. She should have gone outpatient.

This is only 2 pages. EDIT YOUR OPTIONS! 30 post per page = ftw.

And, she's an idiot. I openly admit that was a dumb call on her part. She stepped on a piece of glass and it was a "deep cut." I've had to cut a barbed knife out of my own finger, and you know what I did? I got a napkin, some tape, and kept working. But, I don't understand how unnecessary stitches is the reason behind the incredibly high cost for health care?

And my mom pays $130 for the family bi-weekly. Family of 3 (her, me, my brother.)

You sure you're jewish? I don't know too many socialist jews.

What do you want to be when you grow up?

A liberator...?

Access and having are not the same thing.

x2. Everyone CAN go to the hospital, and for the most part won't get denied care. But, the problem is, they'll stabilize you and turf you. They won't really cure you. They keep doing it to me (even though I have insurance). They stabilize me, make sure I can function, then discharge me. I think that's a major problem. They just make sure you're decent, then kick you out.

[Rashaddd]

Holy shit she is gettign ripped off. I pay $30 a month for 100% coverage.

Monkey's don't get sick as often as people...

[IDSkot]

Monkey's don't get sick as often as people...

Refer to HIV / AIDS.

[Spider Monkey]

This is only 2 pages. EDIT YOUR OPTIONS! 30 post per page = ftw.

I meant posts[/quote]

And, she's an idiot. I openly admit that was a dumb call on her part. She stepped on a piece of glass and it was a "deep cut." I've had to cut a barbed knife out of my own finger, and you know what I did? I got a napkin, some tape, and kept working. But, I don't understand how unnecessary stitches is the reason behind the incredibly high cost for health care?[/quote]

Because the cunt waffle went to the hospital (exepensive and for life emergencies only) instead of her physician or an outpatient facility (that is what those are designed for).

And my mom pays $130 for the family bi-weekly. Family of 3 (her, me, my brother.

That is hella cheap. WTF you talking about expensive?


x2. Everyone CAN go to the hospital, and for the most part won't get denied care. But, the problem is, they'll stabilize you and turf you. They won't really cure you. They keep doing it to me (even though I have insurance).

Well duh. You get what you pay for.

They stabilize me, make sure I can function, then discharge me. I think that's a major problem. They just make sure you're decent, then kick you out.
Uh.... that is their job.

Monkey's don't get sick as often as people...

Good point.