Whos fault is this?

[Toasted1]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/03/mustangpond.jpg

Forum Fodder: Dealer accidentally remote starts customer's Mustang right into a pond? *UPDATE

Ready to play armchair Johnny Cochran? Here's a story about a horse that got led to water and then dove in. A Mustang Forum member, luckydawg003 (LD), took his manual-tranny 2007 Mustang GT in for warranty repair to Brandon Ford in Tampa, Florida. When he went to pick it up, the service manager departed to retrieve his car, then came back ten minutes later to say he had some bad news. According to LD, someone left the car in gear without the parking brake on, and when the service manager pressed the remote start button twice to start the car, it leaped to life and drove out of the dealer's lot, through a chain link fence and into a pond, getting completely submerged.

Other twists to the tale: LD had an aftermarket remote starter that bypassed the clutch and would start the car even if it weren't in neutral. A forum poster going by the handle Tylus linked to the posts wherein LD asks for advice on how to achieve the particular bypass he was after. Some folks think it's the dealership's fault, saying the 'Stang was in their possession and the service manager didn't need to use an aftermarket remote starter to retrieve the car. Some feel it's LD's fault, having left an jerry-rigged system in someone else's car. And some say there's enough blame for everyone. Question is, what is LD left to do about his scuba-diving Mustang? Pictures of the car post-dive in the gallery below.

:rofl:

Dealers side of it

After reading many posts of the last few days that were either incomplete or just entirely inaccurate, I decided that it was finally time to set the record straight. The incident involving the Mustang that drove itself, unoccupied, into a body of water, occurred at our dealership. The simple, unquestionable facts of this unfortunate event are as follows:
• The vehicle was equipped with a remote start system.
• The system was installed in such a way as to circumvent the factory safety
systems that would have prevented it from starting in gear.
• By the vehicle owner's own admission with a County Police Officer present, he stated that he personally installed this aftermarket system and intentionally disabled the factory safety system.
• The vehicle owner used a remote that did not have a "start" button on it.
• The vehicle owner admitted that he never notified our service personnel of the remote start system on his vehicle.
• Despite numerous posts to the contrary, the emergency brake had been set when the vehicle was parked. This was verified by the recovery team.
• The method that was used to park and secure the car is in accordance with manufacturer guidelines.
• The service personnel simply attempted to unlock the vehicle with the remote which led to the remote start event.
• The vehicle owner had conversations with a remote starter installer prior to the installation. He was advised that his chosen method on installation was "unwise."
• Several posters advised the owner against his choice even calling it "irresponsible behavior."

Despite industry professionals advising against his method of installation, the owner of this vehicle apparently chose to ignore this advice. We were extremely fortunate that no one was injured as a result of this as we would be discussing who would be held criminally negligent had there been an injury or death. In light of some of this information, I hope that many of you will start to contemplate the safety of yourselves,
your friends, or even your families. Through reading these blogs, I have come to understand that this is an all too common decision made by people on their vehicles. Perhaps this event, however unfortunate, will shed some light on what we believe to be an extremely dangerous and irresponsible modification being performed on many vehicles. This should serve as a wake-up call to anyone considering performing this modification to their vehicle. Thankfully it was only a car lost and not a life.

I dunno I think the dealer should pay but it does not negate the fact the owner is a fucking retard :lol:

[Superlifted06FX4]

Dealer

[atoz350]

Dealer is responsible. Same shit happened to my friend. Though he told them that it was equipped with a remote starter and not to attempt to start it.

[evildave101]

i have to go with owner - why would you bypass the safety shit so the car will start in gear

[brynm]

I completely disagree with this one, there were ways to easily prevent this from happening.

The dumb ass owner could have turned off the remote start when dropping it off.

He could have told dealer not to use remote.

He could have decided to not bypass the neutral switch and left his car out of gear with the parking brake on.

[tapout]

I believe the dealer is lying about the parking brake being on though.

[DUSSIN]

The owner

[fbi90909]

owners fault.
he made the modifications and didn't notify anyone at the dealership.
what kind of moron would bypass that type of remote start safety? that's just asking for trouble, and he got it.

[joetama]

owners fault.
he made the modifications and didn't notify anyone at the dealership.
what kind of moron would bypass that type of remote start safety? that's just asking for trouble, and he got it.

Exactly what he said... I see no reason what so ever to disable that safety.

Look at it in a different light. Lets say the owner watched too many Bond movies. So, being the awesome guy he is made the decision to put a self destruct feature attached to the remote started. However, being a jack ass he forgot to tell anyone about it. The dealer starts the car and it blows up. Who would be at fault then? Obviously the owner.

[o. l. t.]

It is illegal to have a remote start on a 5 speed car. Not in all states I imagine, but in MANY. The owner could actually go to court over just having it on there in any state that follows this law. No manufacturer allows their system to be installed on a 5 speed. The system is designed to shut off until you hold the clutch all the way down because it is designed to NOT WORK on any 5 speed. You have to be in the car to start it.

No shop will do the install, if that doesn't tell you something then you're a fool to think otherwise. Dealer is all good on this one. System is illegally modified.

[Sex Cells]

Owners fault.

Sorry to ruin the troll, guys.

[IamDeMan]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/03/mustangpond.jpg



:rofl:

Dealers side of it



I dunno I think the dealer should pay but it does not negate the fact the owner is a fucking retard :lol:

There is no way in hell the dealership should pay. You can't expect them to have knowledge of every stupid thing an owner does to a car once it is bought. The owner is a complete dumbass and I see no reason for his action to circumvent the safety on the remote start. I do not feel sorry for the owner one fucking bit.

[Glock17]

What does he have Insurance for?

[ramos]

There are remote starts made specifically for manual vehicles. IF the owner of the vehicle decided to jerry rig the wrong version he is at fault. Had there been anyone injured by the vehicle the owner would be liable.

[Randy Savage]

The owner is a twat.

Dealer is not at fault, if they didn't truly know there was a remote start, and the remote didn't have a blatantly clear remote start button.

[fbi90909]

What does he have Insurance for?

:facepalm:

[ramos]

What does he have Insurance for?

Insurance company will laugh at this claim. He knowingly installed and unsafe add on to his car..........do not pass go, do not collect a freaking dime from the insurance company.

[Glock17]

:facepalm:

Shit happens, nothing for either of them to get worked up about, I'm sure its 50K more stangs to choose from just like that one.

[fbi90909]

Shit happens, nothing for either of them to get worked up about, I'm sure its 50K more stangs to choose from just like that one.

:facepalm:

[Glock17]

Insurance company will laugh at this claim. He knowingly installed and unsafe add on to his car..........do not pass go, do not collect a freaking dime from the insurance company.

He's phucked out of a car then. :grin3:

[dcmcki]

Douche owner should have either made everyone who would possibly touch that car what was up with the fucked up remote start or he should have disarmed it somehow. Better yet he shouldnt have even given them the remote itself. Just the fucking key.

[Glock17]

Even though it was a dumb idea, I still think the dealer's Insurance should replace his car since they were in possession of it, Thats like if i borrow FBI's car and and wreck it, being a good person i'd replace it, since it was in my possession at the time.

[fbi90909]

Even though it was a dumb idea, I still think the dealer's Insurance should replace his car since they were in possession of it, Thats like if i borrow FBI's car and and wreck it, being a good person i'd replace it, since it was in my possession at the time.

have you ever owned your own insurance? or insurance for a business at that?

[Randy Savage]

Even though it was a dumb idea, I still think the dealer's Insurance should replace his car since they were in possession of it, Thats like if i borrow FBI's car and and wreck it, being a good person i'd replace it, since it was in my possession at the time.

He didn't tell the dealer he had it on there- according to the dealer, the fob didn't have a separate button to remote start it, how were they supposed to know?

[Glock17]

have you ever owned your own insurance? or insurance for a business at that?
Yes i do have my own Insurance.
He didn't tell the dealer he had it on there- according to the dealer, the fob didn't have a separate button to remote start it, how were they supposed to know?

Maybe they didn't know, But i can guarantee you if they leave this guy hanging they will ndeed get a bad rep causing them to lose alot of business, way more than $25k worth.

[bigtoyota479]

Kids, lol. So nice to be that young and naive again.

[Glock17]

That's just like Toyota's gas pedals were defected, but just for ex they said, fuck them, we aren't replacing shit, then what do you think would happen to the entire company?

[Randy Savage]

Maybe they didn't know, But i can guarantee you if they leave this guy hanging they will ndeed get a bad rep causing them to lose alot of business, way more than $25k worth.

Doubt it.

This isn't going to affect the dealership- the guy is a turd, the dealership has a strong position in that this shitdick circumvented the car's safety without notifying them of the change.

How many people do you think are going to hear about this?

This story will not be seen by more than 1% of the people that would potentially use this dealership in question.

[Randy Savage]

That's just like Toyota's gas pedals were defected, but just for ex they said, fuck them, we aren't replacing shit, then what do you think would happen to the entire company?

Not even close to being anywhere near comparable to Toyota's situation.

Toyota's situation is a defect...this is not a defect, simply owner negligence.

[bigtoyota479]

That's just like Toyota's gas pedals were defected, but just for ex they said, fuck them, we aren't replacing shit, then what do you think would happen to the entire company?

That's totally different than what happened at the dealership, kid. You're comparing apples to oranges.

[pl8er]

Interesting situation. The type of modification makes it harder to decide lets say it wasn't a remote starter. Lets say he installed a brand new widget for his car. Despite the widget functioning, it was not made for this car and had to be modified in order to function properly. Now lets say the same owner installed 10 different widgets that all worked on the car yet modified how the car is supposed to run. Is the technician supposed to have a secondary list of all mods for the vehicle and work possibly against his training? Of course not. The tech should be able to use the vehicle exactly as the car was designed and any modification should be secondary to standard functionality.

There is a reason why add-ons to vehicles under warranty can void the warranty. The car is designed and engineered with multiple systems (many are safety) and when you start to bypass these, you end up with bad situations. People telling him online that the mod is a bad idea is NOTHING to this case however as (despite what most of you may think) forums are not really considered expert knowledge and more opinion based as there are few ways to accredit the person talking.

If the guy would have installed a cold air intake and NEVER drove in the rain because he didn't want to risk hydro lock. So what if it rained the day that it was being serviced and was outside and the tech drove across the lot, hit a bump, and water got sucked in? Would the dealership be at fault for this too because they should have paid better attention to pot holes full of water on a modified vehicle?

Naaa dawg naaa

[Sex Cells]

That's just like Toyota's gas pedals were defected, but just for ex they said, fuck them, we aren't replacing shit, then what do you think would happen to the entire company?

So toyota should fix this guys gas petal?

What the fuck are you even trying to say?

[Glock17]

So toyota should fix this guys gas petal?

What the fuck are you even trying to say?
I'm saying it wouldn't hurt the dealership itself to just replace a $25K car since they were in possession of the guys car, or let him get a 2007 replacement at half price..Imho

[pl8er]

I'm saying it wouldn't hurt the dealership itself to just replace a $25K car since they were in possession of the guys car, or let him get a 2007 replacement at half price..Imho

Well it would impact their finances though. What is the thought process on half-price? I would think dealer's cost instead.

[Glock17]

Well it would impact their finances though. What is the thought process on half-price? I would think dealer's cost instead.
Yeah dealers cost would be sorta even, I have always been taught that if i have a persons item in my possession, I am fully responsible for it no matter what.

[Sex Cells]

I'm saying it wouldn't hurt the dealership itself to just replace a $25K car since they were in possession of the guys car, or let him get a 2007 replacement at half price..Imho

You're fucking INSANE. Why would they do that? Its not their fault. Nobody's going to think twice about going there because some kid rigged his vehicle and the worst that could happen almost happened.

However, you think there wont be more people doing anything they can to get their vehicles to have catastrophic failure at that dealership -- if they give him a new car/half price car/whatever?

You better stick to running real estate errands and stay the fuck out of any part of the business that requires common sense or logical reasoning.

[pl8er]

Yeah dealers cost would be sorta even, I have always been taught that if i have a persons item in my possession, I am fully responsible for it no matter what.

My wife just made a good comment to me about this. Lets say I say "hey man, borrow my car" knowing that i had just damaged the brake lines recently. I give you the keys you drive off, pump the brakes and it goes into another car. You are at fault for the vehicle not stopping?

[Sex Cells]

Yeah dealers cost would be sorta even, I have always been taught that if i have a persons item in my possession, I am fully responsible for it no matter what.

Yes stupid fuck, that 'no matter what' pertains to things like a tree fell on it, employee messed it up, another customer backed into it, etc. etc. Not something that is clearly the owners fault.

Let me ask this.. If the owner was at the dealership himself and pressed the button, or ran it into the water himself.. should the dealer still have to pay?

[_AnGeL_]

its ford fault.

[_AnGeL_]

or glocks

[_AnGeL_]

i think im inclined more towards it being glocks fault.

[brynm]

They must have left sitting next to a Toyota for to long and it got infected

[joetama]

Kids, lol. So nice to be that young and naive again.

LOL truth... Next Peter fucking Pan will be flying out his asshole.

I'm saying it wouldn't hurt the dealership itself to just replace a $25K car since they were in possession of the guys car, or let him get a 2007 replacement at half price..Imho

Shitty economy, down car sales, high expenses, new taxes and healthcare previsions, cash for clunkers. All reasons why $25,000 could seriously hurt a dealership.

If you were the president of the dealership would you pay some dick weed who modified his car to be unsafe $25,000? Remember this is YOUR money. Money you need to use on advertising, pay roll, taxes, electric, gas, inventory, etc etc.

My wife just made a good comment to me about this. Lets say I say "hey man, borrow my car" knowing that i had just damaged the brake lines recently. I give you the keys you drive off, pump the brakes and it goes into another car. You are at fault for the vehicle not stopping?

Lets say he died. Pretty much fits negligent homicide as a definition. If you have a case for criminal prosecution then tort is a piece of cake.

They must have left sitting next to a Toyota for to long and it got infected

The owner? LOL




I was going to comment on a lot more posts but you guys pretty much nailed everything I wanted to say.

[Spider Monkey]

Can someone please explain to me why someone would even want their car to start in gear?

[Randy Savage]

Can someone please explain to me why someone would even want their car to start in gear?

To eliminate downtime from getting into car and putting car into gear.

Patience is for pussies.

[jesus]

owners fault.
he made the modifications and didn't notify anyone at the dealership.
what kind of moron would bypass that type of remote start safety? that's just asking for trouble, and he got it.

x3

They should have left the Mustang in the water though.

[Spider Monkey]

To eliminate downtime from getting into car and putting car into gear.


I meant logically.

[ramos]

I meant logically.

wtf is this logic you speak of?

[joetama]

I guess no one found my legal joke... :(

[ramos]

After reading glocks crap, I was scared to read any further. I felt myself getting dumber by the second :(

[SHellphish]

its ford fault.


this, even if it wasn't a ford dealer that fucked up lol.

[hoss]

WTF?????????????????????? Toyota is building Ford's now?????????????????

[pl8er]

Glock annoys me but I think you guys are too hard on him. He doesn't know better on situations like this and wants to be involved. Yeah, the reply was not right but its not like he comes back and says "oh you're a retard for not agreeing".

Being young is a bitch yo.

[CockMuncher]

I think its the kids fault, since he wired the alarm, otherwise I would blamed the alarm installer. I think the dealer is in the clear in every angle. The dealer can use the autostart, he was never instructed not to.

[Sex Cells]

pl8er needs to just adopt glock and get it over with.

[pl8er]

on the contrary, I think Glock needs to experience the actual real world. I coddle everyone too much :P

[Glock17]

on the contrary, I think Glock needs to experience the actual real world. I coddle everyone too much :P

Where's my cuddles of love?

[pl8er]

Where's my cuddles of love?

*sigh* I just said you need real world, not cuddles.

[Sex Cells]

on the contrary, I think Glock needs to experience the actual real world. I coddle everyone too much :P

His parents will be having none of that.

[Glock17]

*sigh* I just said you need real world, not cuddles.
I am in the real world, and even deman shows love.

[IamDeMan]

Even though it was a dumb idea, I still think the dealer's Insurance should replace his car since they were in possession of it, Thats like if i borrow FBI's car and and wreck it, being a good person i'd replace it, since it was in my possession at the time.

They didn't borrow the car. He brought it to them for work and failed to mention a very dangerous modification.

Your explanation does not apply here.

[IamDeMan]

After reading glocks crap, I was scared to read any further. I felt myself getting dumber by the second :(

I think his view just comes from never having to take full responsibility for his own actions.

[IamDeMan]

Or he is trollin yall

[Randy Savage]

Or he is trollin yall

You have to pay the troll toll to get into this little boy's hole.

[Spider Monkey]

Glock annoys me but I think you guys are too hard on him. He doesn't know better on situations like this and wants to be involved. Yeah, the reply was not right but its not like he comes back and says "oh you're a retard for not agreeing".

Being young is a bitch yo.

LOLZ. Old man talking about being young ITT.